The Leonard Bernstein Forums

[Rebcamuse]

With apologies for cross-posting:

I am a doctoral candidate in Musicology and I am currently in the stage of completing my dissertation. My dissertation topic investigates the impact of the Second Vatican Council on the concert mass in the United States. I present a case study of three masses: one by Paul Creston, one by Lou Harrison and finally, Leonard Bernsteinís Mass:A Theatre Piece. It is in regard to this last piece that I hope you may be able to help me.

I defend the work as a study of the principles set forth by the Second Vatican Council as well as the polemics that resulted from the councilóboth musical and social (although my focus is on the former). Many different sources have made brief mention of Maestro Bernsteinís study with Jesuits in Los Angeles, but I have been unable to locate any kind of detailed information regarding this. Specifically, I would like to know where and when this took place and if there is anyone who might be able to give me more details. To this end, I would so appreciate any assistance you might be able to give me.

Please feel free to forward this communication on to anyone you think may be able to help. I have included my contact information below. Thank you so much for your time and help in advance.

Sincerely,
Rebecca Giacosie Marchand
PhD candidate, Musicology
UC Santa Barbara

rebecca.marchand@gmail.com

[Rebcamuse]

I have been informed that this topic is covered thoroughly in Humphrey Burton's biography and that the study with Jesuits took place in New York, not Los Angeles (as Peyser and Freedland both claim). I would still welcome any further leads on this issue, but I apologize for my misinformation.

Rebecca

[2coastsgirl]

Rebcamuse,

I was wondering if Bernstein's Mass actually fits the definition of a concert Mass. He referred to it as a theater piece. It does have parts of the Catholic Mass in it but it is interspersed with other texts. It's pretty different from Mozart's Requiem Mass or Beethoven's Mass.
Just a question....

Also, here is some info re Vatican Council II's changes regarding liturgy (the Mass). So take it or leave it.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html

Can I give some opinions of Bernstein's Mass? I really love A Simple Song but.... as a Catholic ( a Roman Catholic as opposed to an American Catholic- ask me about that if you are curious)- I wasn't too thrilled- actually was appauled at the Celebrant throwing the chalice on the floor. It's the equivalent of taking someone you love, that you consider precious and sacred-that you have so much love and reverance for- and throwing them on the floor. Catholics believe that the bread and wine in the Mass get converted to the body and blood of Jesus Christ. So the celebrant threw my Lord on the floor. Do you understand what I am saying?

In my opinion the message that was given in the piece was a social one. Let's love one another and live in peace. Everyone in America was saying that in the late sixties/early seventies. But the Catholic Mass is much more than that. There are more levels than the social. It contains a sacrament- an invitation to have the grace and presence of our Lord, Jesus Christ, to be within everyone who receive the Eucharist so that they have the strength to do what is right. It is an oppurtunity to give praise and thanks to the Lord too. My question for you is- can you find that in Bernstein's Mass? I'd be interested in those insights.

Another point about the Jesuits-IMHO- they have the reputation of being pretty "independent". That is they don't necessarily follow what the heads of the Church in Rome or what has been written by the doctors of the Church. At times, they "march to their own drummer". Vatican Council II tried to make the Roman Catholic Church in step with the modern world. It encouraged people to use their intellect and think for themselves instead of just being "sheep". There were good things that came from this but there were some pretty bad consequences of this too unfortunately. So lots of people including American priests and bishops went off and did their own thing and did what felt right instead of doing the research (the Bible, the writings of church theologians, the encyclicals of the popes,etc.) praying for discernment (or insight) from the Holy Spirit and then making an informed decision. Change just for the sake of change is not always good.

The celebrant in a Catholic Mass is supposed to be a priest who represents Jesus Christ. In the end of Mass when the celebrant leaves with the people, is a good analogy. Jesus is always with us. Unfortunately throwing Jesus on the floor - the chalice- wasn't a good one in my opinion and I would have changed that about the piece. Both faith (the Mass) and works(going out and loving one another) are important and inseparable.

How far should one go to shock people in art to get a message across? Where do we draw the line? Those are good questions to consider.

Just some opinions.

BTW, my younger daughter went to go to your school. My oldest went to UCSD. So good luck to you and your thesis.

[scottsimms]

Bernstein's conception of the MASS supersedes the dogmatic literalism of Roman Catholic liturgy and goes back to its fundamental underpinning: sacrificial myth, which is universal to all theologies and religions, dependent upon metaphor rather than literalism, and applicable to all humanity. Which is why MASS is called a theater piece. Criticizing MASS for its use of the Roman Catholic ritual is parallel to Nietzsche's swipe at Wagner for the latter's use of Christian symbolism in PARSIFAL. In Wagner's intention, the Easter Sunday setting of PARSIFAL seeks to find its redemption in the compassion and rebirth of the spirit, not dogma.